Kindernay Hubs?


Wilbur Ince
 

Anyone get their hands on one of these hubs?

https://kindernay.com/

They are available, similarly priced to the Rohloff, but seem to be lighter, and have hydraulic shifting!

Would love to hear about any interactions with them.

--
Wilbur Ince



--
-----
Wilbur Ince


Craig Richmond
 

Why is "thru-axle" suddenly a thing?

On Thursday, May 26, 2022, 08:54:27 AM CDT, Wilbur Ince <wilbur@...> wrote:

Anyone get their hands on one of these hubs?


They are available, similarly priced to the Rohloff, but seem to be
lighter, and have hydraulic shifting!

Would love to hear about any interactions with them.

Wilbur Ince



--
-----
Wilbur Ince






alexphredorg
 

It's trickle down from mountain bikes.  It stiffens up the triangle, which is good for cargo and touring bikes too.  It's not a killer feature, just an incremental improvement.  What is important is that very few mountain or gravel bikes are made for 10mm QR axles anymore, so if you want to use a modern frame you also need to have a through-axle compatible hub.  Rohloff hacked around this (basically making a nutted hub that works with through-axle standards).

I've been watching the Kindernay for a few years.  It looks interesting, I'd love to see an exploded diagram to see how they've built the shifting mechanism compared to what Rohloff did.  I like that they made a 7sp version quite quickly (Rohloff said this was in R&D for almost a decade then stopped talking about it).  I'm less convinced on the easily removable hub shell or hydraulic shifting aspects.

Alex


From: main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io <main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io> on behalf of Craig Richmond via groups.io <craigrichmond@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 7:00 AM
To: Geared Hubs <geared-hub-bikes@groups.io>; main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io <main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [geared-hub-bikes] Kindernay Hubs?
 
Why is "thru-axle" suddenly a thing?

On Thursday, May 26, 2022, 08:54:27 AM CDT, Wilbur Ince <wilbur@...> wrote:

Anyone get their hands on one of these hubs?


They are available, similarly priced to the Rohloff, but seem to be
lighter, and have hydraulic shifting!

Would love to hear about any interactions with them.

Wilbur Ince



--
-----
Wilbur Ince






Stephen Poole
 

IMHO the swappable shells are the best feature; I could have say a 26" fatbike wheel, a 650 touring wheel and a 29+ wheel without having to buy three expen$ive hubs. However, while the Rohloff hubs are very well proven there's been very little feedback about Kindernay. I'm also not keen on the idea of hydraulic shifting. If one also had hydraulic brakes that's potentially four different sorts of oil to carry if going somewhere remote - hub oil, brake fluid, shifter fluid and chain lube, plus maybe two bleed kits too. I'd rather stick with cables, thanks very much.

And while Kindernay do thru axle hubs, the chainline 45.5mm, versus 54-58mm with Rohloff. With a ~6mm wide chain that puts the inside of the chain at ~42.5mm, which doesn't give much clearance for plus tyres (~4.5mm with 3.0"/76mm), and gives negative clearance with fatbike tyres. 45.5mm is the same as SRAM road/gravel 1x, but I can't see too many of these hubs going on those sorts of bikes.

If you want to use a Gates belt drive the narrower chainline/beltline is going to complicate matters further too, given the belts are IIRC ~11mm wide. The only way I can see to get more clearance is to build a frame with an offset rear end, like on early Surly Pugsleys, but that causes complications with wheel dish, Q factor, etc.

FWIW, I think the gaps on the Rohloff are pretty much spot on, and those on the XIV are very close to the same. The VII hub though doesn't weigh or cost much less, but has humongous gaps between the gears; I'd much rather have a Rohloff, Alfine 11, (or XIV), but YMMV.

Later,
Stephen (who may never see a Kindernay hub here in Australia)


alexphredorg
 

The 7sp hub makes sense in certainly applications where close ratios aren't as important like cargo bikes. 

Rohloffs aren't well proven to me anymore since I have a $1500 Rohloff paperweight that no one will sell me parts for or service.  I've owned 5 of them (still have 2, one is the broken one).

Storing bikes without wheels and having to do a 5-10 minute hub swap every time I want to ride a bike sounds really annoying.  I can see it for rarely used bikes, but it would drive me nuts on a daily driver.  If a bike is rarely used I'd probably choose a cheap 1x12 Deore or 1x10 Microshift drivetrain over a Rohloff or Kindernay.  I love IGHs, but the modern derailleur drivetrains also work very well at a fraction of the price.

Alex



From: main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io <main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io> on behalf of Stephen Poole via groups.io <nsc.editor@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 7:56 AM
To: main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io <main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io>
Cc: Geared Hubs <geared-hub-bikes@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [geared-hub-bikes] Kindernay Hubs?
 
IMHO the swappable shells are the best feature; I could have say a 26" fatbike wheel, a 650 touring wheel and a 29+ wheel without having to buy three expen$ive hubs. However, while the Rohloff hubs are very well proven there's been very little feedback about Kindernay. I'm also not keen on the idea of hydraulic shifting. If one also had hydraulic brakes that's potentially four different sorts of oil to carry if going somewhere remote - hub oil, brake fluid, shifter fluid and chain lube, plus maybe two bleed kits too. I'd rather stick with cables, thanks very much.

And while Kindernay do thru axle hubs, the chainline 45.5mm, versus 54-58mm with Rohloff. With a ~6mm wide chain that puts the inside of the chain at ~42.5mm, which doesn't give much clearance for plus tyres (~4.5mm with 3.0"/76mm), and gives negative clearance with fatbike tyres. 45.5mm is the same as SRAM road/gravel 1x, but I can't see too many of these hubs going on those sorts of bikes.

If you want to use a Gates belt drive the narrower chainline/beltline is going to complicate matters further too, given the belts are IIRC ~11mm wide. The only way I can see to get more clearance is to build a frame with an offset rear end, like on early Surly Pugsleys, but that causes complications with wheel dish, Q factor, etc.

FWIW, I think the gaps on the Rohloff are pretty much spot on, and those on the XIV are very close to the same. The VII hub though doesn't weigh or cost much less, but has humongous gaps between the gears; I'd much rather have a Rohloff, Alfine 11, (or XIV), but YMMV.

Later,
Stephen (who may never see a Kindernay hub here in Australia)


alexphredorg
 

My ideal 7sp hub would have lower range and ratios somewhere around 20% (bigger than the 14sp hubs) and use through axles.  That would probably work very well for me on mountain bikes and be in between the Kindernay XIV and VII hubs in jumps.  I'm guessing the VII and XVI use the same planetary gears and saved on R&D and production costs.

Alex


From: main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io <main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io> on behalf of alexphredorg via groups.io <alex@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 11:21 AM
To: main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io <main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io>
Cc: Geared Hubs <geared-hub-bikes@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [geared-hub-bikes] Kindernay Hubs?
 
The 7sp hub makes sense in certainly applications where close ratios aren't as important like cargo bikes. 

Rohloffs aren't well proven to me anymore since I have a $1500 Rohloff paperweight that no one will sell me parts for or service.  I've owned 5 of them (still have 2, one is the broken one).

Storing bikes without wheels and having to do a 5-10 minute hub swap every time I want to ride a bike sounds really annoying.  I can see it for rarely used bikes, but it would drive me nuts on a daily driver.  If a bike is rarely used I'd probably choose a cheap 1x12 Deore or 1x10 Microshift drivetrain over a Rohloff or Kindernay.  I love IGHs, but the modern derailleur drivetrains also work very well at a fraction of the price.

Alex



From: main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io <main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io> on behalf of Stephen Poole via groups.io <nsc.editor@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 7:56 AM
To: main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io <main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io>
Cc: Geared Hubs <geared-hub-bikes@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [geared-hub-bikes] Kindernay Hubs?
 
IMHO the swappable shells are the best feature; I could have say a 26" fatbike wheel, a 650 touring wheel and a 29+ wheel without having to buy three expen$ive hubs. However, while the Rohloff hubs are very well proven there's been very little feedback about Kindernay. I'm also not keen on the idea of hydraulic shifting. If one also had hydraulic brakes that's potentially four different sorts of oil to carry if going somewhere remote - hub oil, brake fluid, shifter fluid and chain lube, plus maybe two bleed kits too. I'd rather stick with cables, thanks very much.

And while Kindernay do thru axle hubs, the chainline 45.5mm, versus 54-58mm with Rohloff. With a ~6mm wide chain that puts the inside of the chain at ~42.5mm, which doesn't give much clearance for plus tyres (~4.5mm with 3.0"/76mm), and gives negative clearance with fatbike tyres. 45.5mm is the same as SRAM road/gravel 1x, but I can't see too many of these hubs going on those sorts of bikes.

If you want to use a Gates belt drive the narrower chainline/beltline is going to complicate matters further too, given the belts are IIRC ~11mm wide. The only way I can see to get more clearance is to build a frame with an offset rear end, like on early Surly Pugsleys, but that causes complications with wheel dish, Q factor, etc.

FWIW, I think the gaps on the Rohloff are pretty much spot on, and those on the XIV are very close to the same. The VII hub though doesn't weigh or cost much less, but has humongous gaps between the gears; I'd much rather have a Rohloff, Alfine 11, (or XIV), but YMMV.

Later,
Stephen (who may never see a Kindernay hub here in Australia)


Stephen Poole
 

@ Alex: I'm amazed/horrified no-one will service your Rohloff hub; I didn't think that was conceivable, given all their talk of200,000+km lifespans. I'm not as surprised they won't sell internal parts, but it's a shame they won't.

As for 1x12 Deore or similar, sure they work fine, but not so much if you're going for maximum tyre width + minimum Q factor; there Rohloff or SS wins out by virtue of wide and constant chainline.

Later,
Stephen


On Fri, 27 May 2022, 04:21 alexphredorg, <alex@...> wrote:
The 7sp hub makes sense in certainly applications where close ratios aren't as important like cargo bikes. 

Rohloffs aren't well proven to me anymore since I have a $1500 Rohloff paperweight that no one will sell me parts for or service.  I've owned 5 of them (still have 2, one is the broken one).

Storing bikes without wheels and having to do a 5-10 minute hub swap every time I want to ride a bike sounds really annoying.  I can see it for rarely used bikes, but it would drive me nuts on a daily driver.  If a bike is rarely used I'd probably choose a cheap 1x12 Deore or 1x10 Microshift drivetrain over a Rohloff or Kindernay.  I love IGHs, but the modern derailleur drivetrains also work very well at a fraction of the price.

Alex



From: main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io <main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io> on behalf of Stephen Poole via groups.io <nsc.editor=gmail.com@groups.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2022 7:56 AM
To: main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io <main@geared-hub-bikes.groups.io>
Cc: Geared Hubs <geared-hub-bikes@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [geared-hub-bikes] Kindernay Hubs?
 
IMHO the swappable shells are the best feature; I could have say a 26" fatbike wheel, a 650 touring wheel and a 29+ wheel without having to buy three expen$ive hubs. However, while the Rohloff hubs are very well proven there's been very little feedback about Kindernay. I'm also not keen on the idea of hydraulic shifting. If one also had hydraulic brakes that's potentially four different sorts of oil to carry if going somewhere remote - hub oil, brake fluid, shifter fluid and chain lube, plus maybe two bleed kits too. I'd rather stick with cables, thanks very much.

And while Kindernay do thru axle hubs, the chainline 45.5mm, versus 54-58mm with Rohloff. With a ~6mm wide chain that puts the inside of the chain at ~42.5mm, which doesn't give much clearance for plus tyres (~4.5mm with 3.0"/76mm), and gives negative clearance with fatbike tyres. 45.5mm is the same as SRAM road/gravel 1x, but I can't see too many of these hubs going on those sorts of bikes.

If you want to use a Gates belt drive the narrower chainline/beltline is going to complicate matters further too, given the belts are IIRC ~11mm wide. The only way I can see to get more clearance is to build a frame with an offset rear end, like on early Surly Pugsleys, but that causes complications with wheel dish, Q factor, etc.

FWIW, I think the gaps on the Rohloff are pretty much spot on, and those on the XIV are very close to the same. The VII hub though doesn't weigh or cost much less, but has humongous gaps between the gears; I'd much rather have a Rohloff, Alfine 11, (or XIV), but YMMV.

Later,
Stephen (who may never see a Kindernay hub here in Australia)


ighexpert
 

I have found a source for the main rubber seals and the paper seals.
I have the special tools and the official Rohloff Authorized Service Center parts box.
Apparently, Rohloff rescinded all service "authority" from all USA shops except Peter White Cycles.
CycleMonkey has dropped the line.
QBP still sells limited options.
The Germans (Other companies too, like Magura and Pinion) seem to think they can dictate what end users do with their product.
It is an odd way of doing business and I think it will loose them customers.  That used to be the beauty of Rohloff is that
all the parts that needed service were easily done by the end user or a bike shop. 
Now they claim their seals don't leak and you have to send it to the factory in Germany for any service. 


bertin753
 


Stephen Poole
 

@ ighexpert

That's not at all encouraging. I will have to check and see whether there is still a service agent here in Australia. If not, I have a new Rohloff hub in a box that will probably be for sale. I have no interest in dismantling and rebuilding wheels or sending hubs to and from Germany, plus having a monopoly always means people raise their prices.  :-(

Later,
Stephen


On Sat, 28 May 2022, 04:10 ighexpert, <aaron@...> wrote:
I have found a source for the main rubber seals and the paper seals.
I have the special tools and the official Rohloff Authorized Service Center parts box.
Apparently, Rohloff rescinded all service "authority" from all USA shops except Peter White Cycles.
CycleMonkey has dropped the line.
QBP still sells limited options.
The Germans (Other companies too, like Magura and Pinion) seem to think they can dictate what end users do with their product.
It is an odd way of doing business and I think it will loose them customers.  That used to be the beauty of Rohloff is that
all the parts that needed service were easily done by the end user or a bike shop. 
Now they claim their seals don't leak and you have to send it to the factory in Germany for any service. 
_._,_._


ighexpert
 

I would suggest you use the hub.
They are very low maintenance and oil changes are easy.
You won't need major service on the hub for at least 20,000 miles.
For many people that is a lifetime.